RFC 1211
Problems with the maintenance of large mailing lists
Problems with the Maintenance of Large Mailing Lists 📬✨
Okay bestie, this is RFC 1211, published in March 1991 by A. Westine and J. Postel, both from ISI (USC Information Sciences Institute) 🌸. It's part of the Network Working Group series. It's Informational 💅, which means it shares info with the Internet community and doesn't set a standard. The header has no Obsoletes or Updates lines, so it doesn't replace or change any other RFC.
Status of this Memo 🎀
This RFC is about the problems that come with running big mailing lists, especially handling error reports 😭. It's an information memo for the Internet community, not an Internet standard. You can distribute it freely, no limits 🦋.
Table of Contents 🧚
1. Introduction.............................................. 1
2. Discussion................................................ 1
3. Typical Problems.......................................... 3
3.1. Misdirected Error Reports................................. 3
3.2. Sublists.................................................. 3
3.3. Misdirected Requests...................................... 5
3.4. Misdirected Messages...................................... 5
4. Summary................................................... 5
APPENDIX A - I used to be on the List.......................... 6
APPENDIX B - Changing Addresses and Sublists................... 8
APPENDIX C - Sublists and Other Protocol Worlds................ 9
APPENDIX D - Errors from Hidden Hosts.......................... 10
APPENDIX E - No Postmaster..................................... 12
APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages........................ 14
5. Security Considerations................................... 53
6. Authors' Addresses........................................ 541. Introduction 🌈
Running big mailing lists is hard, especially when it comes to error reports 💀. Most of the examples come from managing the IETF mailing list, and there are lots of them in this memo. Most of the specific problems shown have already been fixed ✨.
2. Discussion 💖
At ISI, we run mailing lists for the Internet Research Groups, the IETF, and other Internet groups: about 25 lists total 🍓. We get around 400 messages a month asking to add or remove people, which works out to about 20 change requests a day.
We also get about 300 error messages a month from mail delivery problems. A lot of them are duplicates, but the bottom line is that about 10 cases a day need looking into 😩.
Lots of the error reports are "soft errors," mostly delayed delivery notices like not delivered for 2 days, will try for 3 more days. These waste the list maintainer's time and get ignored anyway 🙄. It's extra wasteful when they repeat every day. But if the same host keeps causing them for many days in a row, the list maintainer may look into it 👀.
Ignoring soft errors isn't always easy, though. One error message can list several mailboxes, so you have to read carefully to pick out the hard errors 🔍.
Hard errors, like no such user, need action from the list maintainer 🫶. Usually the fix is just deleting that mailbox from the list. But if the mailbox belongs to someone known to be an active working group chair, or someone similar, it needs more investigation 🕵️♀️. The more general no such host might be temporary, but if it lasts several days, it has to be investigated 💅.
Error conditions don't have standard names (for example, no such user vs. user unknown), so it's sometimes hard to tell whether a soft or hard error is being reported, or what to do about it 😵. For example, what does Can't Find Mail Center! mean? Or what should you do with this one?
mailll:%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening SYS$USER2:[STGEORGE.LONGMAIL]MAIL$00040093BE236612.MAI;
as outputI)The first step with a problem mailbox is checking whether it's on the list 📋. If it is, the next step is checking whether there's really a problem with it. You do this with the SMTP VRFY and EXPN features, Finger, or Whois 🔎. This often reveals that the user recently changed their address. That has to be confirmed through an exchange of messages with the postmaster, and then the mailing list gets updated 💌.
If the user isn't on the list, the mail probably goes through an exploder or sublist 🧩. So the investigation shifts to finding which exploder is involved. Usually you find it by looking at the path in the received lines of the error report 🛤️. Sometimes the SMTP EXPN feature can check the exploder that caused the error. Then the postmaster gets notified 📣.
If the error report says a host is unknown, the programs whathost, dig, ping, and traceroute can help you find the problem 🛠️. But actually fixing it might mean talking to host and domain administrators 🤝.
What to do when problems can't be resolved? Delete the offending entry from the list. That may eventually lead to this message: "I used to be on the ietf list, how come I am not getting the messages any more?" (See Appendix A.) 😭
3. Typical Problems 🎀
In this section we talk about the typical, frequent problems that happen with large mailing lists 💜.
3.1. Misdirected Error Reports 📨
The most common problem is error reports getting sent to the message's author instead of the list owner 🙃. One way this happens is when the author's host has trouble connecting to another host along the route before the message reaches ISI, where the mailing list lives.
At ISI, the SMTP "from" information is added when the message is distributed to the list, so hosts that follow the SMTP protocol send their error reports to the list owner 👑. But not all hosts do this properly 😤.
Another problem is that some machines ignore the SMTP information about where error reports should go 🙈.
3.2. Sublists 🌷
So what's a sublist? It's a mailbox with an alias name that expands to a mailing list or group of recipients 🧁. We have lots of them on our mailing lists.
When someone asks to add a mailbox to a list that looks like an exploder, we send this message:
We ask that all list maintainters of exploder mailboxes (an
alias-name that expands to a mailing-list or group of recipients)
set up some sort of ownership at their site, for their list. What
this means is, is any mailbox on your list is invalid, the error
message will go to you (the list owner), and you can delete that
mailbox from your list.
An example of an entry in your aliases file would be:
owner-ietf-local: stev@vax.ftp.com,
(or your list maintainer/postmaster)Honestly, few people seem to understand list ownership, or they don't set it up correctly 😭. There's plenty of evidence of problems in this area.
When we investigate "user unknown" messages, the user usually isn't listed individually on our list 🥺. So we check the received lines and look for an exploder list on a host similar to the one the error came from or points to. Then we try SMTP EXPN or VRFY to confirm the user is on a sublist. But since many hosts don't implement EXPN or VRFY, the result is often inconclusive 🤷♀️. So we contact the list maintainer and ask them to delete the invalid mailbox if it's on their sublist.
Another problem happens when someone on a sublist wants to change their mailbox name 🦋. We look through the main list to make the change. If the mailbox isn't there, we check the received lines for clues about which host the user is on. Most likely it's a sublist (See Appendix B).
When the mailbox is in another protocol world, like UUCP or BITNET, error reports often get mishandled or sent the wrong way (See Appendix C) 🌍.
Sometimes we can't find the addresses from an error message on the mailing list. In that case, we check the list for a host name that also appears in the received lines of the erroring message. If we find a match, we look for an exploder on that host, expand the sublist there, and see whether the mailbox is on it (See Appendix D) 🔍.
When a sublist gets added to our list, we record the requestor's name and treat them as the sublist owner. But people change roles or companies, so that contact sometimes stops working. Then we fall back to contacting the postmaster. The catch is that not every site has a "postmaster" mailbox (See Appendix E) 😬.
Most users send their requests and changes to the IETF-Request mailbox, even when they're actually on a sublist, usually at their own company 🏢. That makes it hard for us to figure out which exploder they're on.
In that case, the request message gets forwarded to the sublist owner so they can make the change 💌. But sometimes hosts have similar names (same organization but a different department, a different building, off campus, and so on), and it's hard to know whether this person really belongs on that sublist or should be listed individually 🤔. Sometimes we look through the main file to see if there are individual addresses that could be folded into a sublist 🗂️.
3.3. Misdirected Requests 💌
Some users don't know that mailing lists usually have a "request" mailbox, so they send their requests to the main list by mistake 🙈. When that happens, several people resend the request to the list maintainer and then ask whether it was done ⏳.
3.4. Misdirected Messages 🧚♀️
Messages also sometimes go to the request mailbox when they were meant for the main list 📮. Those get forwarded to the main list, and the user gets a note about the correction and how to address their message properly 💅.
4. Summary 🌸
Running a mailing list should be easy, and with small lists it is 🥰. Changes and errors are few and far between. But when lists get big and traffic gets heavy, changes and errors pile up day after day. Managing a large, busy list takes serious effort 😮💨.
Mail program developers add another problem: they're super creative about inventing new error reports 🎨. We include a big sample of them in Appendix F, and we hope they help other mailing list maintainers 🫶.
Based on our experience with big lists, here's what we suggest:
- Users: Please be considerate and try to work problems out locally 💖.
- Sublist owners: Please do everything you can to get the error messages related to your sublist sent to you. Please also try to get the users on your system to talk to you about additions and deletions 👑.
APPENDIX A
A.1. Inquiry Message From User Regarding His Mailbox 💌
okay so Stewart is worried he got kicked off the IETF distribution list 😭 he emails the list admins to check, and gives his address so they can find him. 🦋
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 90 03:02:09 PST
From: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682"
<bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: dist list
Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
distribution list.
My email address is : bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Thanks
StewartA.2. Message To User - His Mailbox Was Re-added 🎀
Ann checks and sees he's still a no-brainer to re-add, so she fixes it and replies. Slay. ✨
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: dist list
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
> distribution. list.
>
> My email address is: bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list.
--AnnA.3. User Name Readded and It Bounced 💀
not me getting re-added and then the mail bounces anyway 😭 the error says the user is unknown because the DECnet mail object on the janus node couldn't handle the transport. the unsent copy of Ann's reply comes back attached too.
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",
during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>.
Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
(can't decypher error code)
550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> (bounced)
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA21747; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:38
Received: from LOCALHOST by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA24660>; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:25 -0800
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
Cc: ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: dist list
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
> distribution list.
>
> My email address is
>
> bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list.
--AnnAPPENDIX B
okay this one is a whole detective story 🕵️♀️ the old mailbox kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM needed to go, and the new one kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM needed to be added. the old address wasn't on the list, and nothing that looked like the hostname was either. then checking the full headers showed the message came through UUNET.UU.NET, which has a sublist called post-ietf@UUNET.UU.NET. using the SMTP EXPN feature on that sublist revealed the mailbox as ssbell!kent. finally, Ann messaged the UUNET postmaster and asked them to delete it. iconic investigation work 🔥
B.1. Error Report 📩
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 90 14:05:38 -0500
From: kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM (Kent Landfield)
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: E-mail address change
Hello,
I am currently receiving ietf related email at
kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM. I am moving to sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM
as the ssbell system is going away. Could you please change my
address to kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM so that I can stay on the
list ? Thanks.B.2. Message Sent to Postmaster 📬
To: postmaster@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Address - <ssbell!kent>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 90 13:44:24 PDT
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
Please delete the mailbox ssbell!kent from the "post-ietf" list. I
will add his new address "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" directly to
the ietf list. Thanks. AnnAPPENDIX C
this one is extra messy 🌀 when a sublist lives in a different protocol world, like BITNET or UUCP, and the mail gets forwarded through a relay, keeping the list ownership concept working properly is even less likely. yikes.
SIGNET is a UUCP host that gets its mail forwarded through the relay THINK.COM. so when the connection breaks, things get spicy. 🌶️
C.1. Error Report 🚨
To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 90 23:45:26 -0400
From: uucp@Think.COM
Subject: Warning From uucp
We have been unable to contact machine 'signet' since you
queued your job.
mail signet!ietf-interest (Date 10/04)
Attempts will continue for a few more days.
Sincerely,
early-bird!uucpC.2. Message Sent to Postmaster 🙈
To: postmaster@think.com
Subject: unable to contact machine 'signet'
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 09:42:54 PDT
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
We have a mailbox on the ietf list that gets relayed through your
host THINK.COM. We will have to delete this mailbox if a connection
cannot be corrected. Thanks, AnnAPPENDIX D
sometimes the addresses in an error report just aren't on the IETF list at all 😳 here GATORCORP isn't on there, but the received lines show a host called VITALINK.COM. VITALINK runs an exploder called ietf-interest@vitalink.com, and DIG shows that VITALINK.COM MXs to UUNET.UU.NET. because VITALINK isn't directly on the Internet, EXPN and VRFY can't be used on its sublist. still, the clues are strong enough for an educated guess that the GATORCORP mailboxes sit on that exploder sublist. so Ann asked the VITALINK.COM postmaster to delete the invalid addresses. 🧚
D.1. Error Report 🫠
Return-Path: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET
Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id <AA16502>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
Posted-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
Received: from UUNET.UU.NET by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA27149>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:34 -0800
Received: from vitam6.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP
id AA12926; Wed, 7 Nov 90 17:34:28 -0500
Received: by vitam6.ENG.Vitalink.COM (5.61/1.35)
id AC03235; Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
From: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp...Host unknownD.2. Message Sent to Postmaster 📮
To: postmaster@vitalink.com
Cc: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp... Host unknown
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 15:30:24 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
Hi,
We have an exploder mailbox on the IETF list called
"ietf-interest@vitalink.com". I'm not sure, but I think the
following addresses may be on that list. Please look into this
"host unknown" problem. If these addresses need to be deleted,
please do so.
Thanks,
AnnAPPENDIX E
every host on the Internet that handles mail is required to have a "postmaster" mailbox 📫 that's where error reports and trouble inquiries go. in this case, the "postmaster" mailbox wasn't recognised at all. 😬
E.1. Message Sent to IETF-Request 👋
To: (ietf-request@venera.isi.edu)
From: Caralyn Brown (CBROWN@ENR)
Date: 10 Jan 91 8:24 AM
Subject: please remove me from this list
Please remove me from this list. I'm changing companies and I'd like
to keep the mailbox from getting out of hand. If it's not too much
trouble, could you just send me a confirmation that I was deleted?
Thanks.
caralynE.2. Message Sent to Postmaster 💌
To: postmaster@list.prime.com
Cc: CBROWN@enr.prime.com, ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Please delete from "ietf@list.prime.com" - Carolyn Brown
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 09:50:15 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
Please delete Carolyn from your sublist. We do not have her address
listed individually on the main IETF list.
Thanks, AnnE.3. Error Report 🥲
From: postmaster-request@List.Prime.COM (List Service version
1.0.x463)
Subject: returned mail
Message-Type: Return
To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
Your mail addressed to "postmaster" could not be processed: There is
no mailing list named "postmaster" at this site.
For help, send to help@List.Prime.COM; to receive an index of
available lists, send to index@List.Prime.COM; to reach a List
Administrator, send to admin@List.Prime.COM.APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages 🌈
F.1. Delayed Delivery Notices 💌
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA08435>; Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> RCPT To:<laird@BBN.COM>
<<< 550 (USER) Unknown user name in "laird@BBN.COM"
550 laird@BBN.COM... User unknown
451 avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
421 dockmaster.ncsc.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
421 va.nkw.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 nsl.dec.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with jove.pa.dec.com
451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
421 sccgate.scc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with sccgate.scc.com
421 a.isi.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by a.ISI.EDU
421 cs.ucl.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 oasys.dt.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with oasys.dt.navy.mil
421 peocu1.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with PEOCU1.NAVY.MIL
421 enh.nist.gov.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with enh.nist.gov
421 mickey.imsd.contel.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
MICKEY.IMSD.CONTEL.COM
421 uv4.eglin.af.mil.tcp..Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uv6.eglin.af.mil
421 ima.isc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with ima.ima.isc.com
421 huachuca-emh8.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
HUACHUCA-EMH8.ARMY.MIL
421 vaxa.nerc-keyworth.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out
during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 gdr.bath.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 ccint1.rsre.mod.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with ccint1.rsre.mod.uk
550 m_ellison@TOOK.LKG.DEC.COM... Host unknown
421 hqafsc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with HQAFSC-VAX.AF.MIL
421 nic.nordu.net.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nic.nordu.net
421 aedc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with AEDC-VAX.AF.MIL
421 letterkenn-emh1.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out
during user open with LETTERKENN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL
421 dumle.kommhuset.se.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with sunic.sunet.se
421 cis.uab.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with cisa.CIS.UAB.EDU
421 server.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with server.af.mil
421 issun3.stc.nl.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with issun3.stc.nl
421 cs.uiuc.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
-------------F.2. Failed Mail
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 5:00:40 EST
From: BBN Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@BBN.COM>
Sender: mmdf@BBN.COM
Subject: Failed mail (msg.aa09055)
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
After 12 days (276 hours), your message could not be fully delivered.
It failed to be received by the following address(es):
mfidelma@cc5.bbn.com (host: cc5.bbn.com) (queue: smtp)
Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.F.3. Waiting Mail
To: RELAY Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@RELAY.CS.NET>
Cc: owner-ietf <@RELAY.CS.NET:owner-ietf@VENERA.ISI.EDU>
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Waiting mail (msg.aa00720)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Oct 90 07:45:14 -0400.
<9010021201.AA06288@venera.isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:11:03 PDT
From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
> After 5 days (105 hours), your message has not yet been
> fully delivered. Attempts to deliver the message will continue
> for 2 more days. No further action is required by you.
>
> Delivery attempts are still pending for the following address(es):
>
> @zix.gmd.dbp.de:weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de
> (host: zix.gmd.dbp.de)(queue: dfn)
>
> Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
> machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.F.4. What Started Out as a Sublist with No Active Users
a. Error Report
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 22:13:12 +0200
From: MAILER-DAEMON@inria.inria.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to mailhost.Gipsi.FR:
>>> RCPT To:<ietf@GIPSI.FR>
<<< 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
----------b. Message Sent to Postmaster
TO: Postmaster@gisi.gipsi.fr
Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
I have received numerous error messages like this for over a week.
There appears to be a mailbox on your exploder that is invalid,
please delete it.
Thanks, --Annc. Reply From Postmaster
From: edmonde@ubu.gipsi.fr (Edmonde Duteurtre)
To: westine
In-Reply-To: Ann Westine's message of Tue,
11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
<9009111656.AA19730@venera.isi.edu>
Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
Hello
On our site, the bind@gipsi.fr, snmp@gipsi.fr, ietf@gipsi.fr and the
nameddroppers@gipsi.fr mailed only one person: prindevi@gipsi.fr but
this person has leaved our company, and you should cancel this
addresses.
I think we get enough informations through the news. I think you
should cancel us (ietf@Gipsi.FR) on the mailing list ietf.F.5. Sublists without local ownership 🔍
In this error message there was not much to go on except the words IETF and the name of the host from where the mailer-daemon sent the error. Using that clue, the mailing list was searched for that host name (SATURN). It was a sublist. It appears that there is something internally wrong with the sublist, and this error should have gone to the postmaster or owner of the IETF@SATURN.ACC.COM list instead of the IETF owner. A message was sent to the postmaster. No reply was received, but the condition was fixed.
a. Error Report
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 14:42:57 EDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON%saturn.ACC.COM@salt.acc.com (Mail Delivery
Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 13
To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
/p/news/ietf/21770: Permission denied
554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"... unknown mailer error 13b. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: Postmaster@saturn.acc.com
cc: ietf-request
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: 554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"
... unknown mailer error 13
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 03 Oct 90 14:42:57 -0400.
<9010031842.AA01601@saturn.acc.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:53:02 PDT
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
Please fix the problem with the following mailbox
"ietf@SATURN.ACC.COM".
Thanks, AnnF.6. Repetitive Error Every Couple of Months from Same Host 🔁
a. Message Dated August 90
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 09:21:26 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 <netrix::gillin>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<erlang::chiu> (sent)
<netrix::gillin> (bounced)
<erlang::rama> (sent)b. Message Dated October 90
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<erlang::chiu> (bounced)
<netrix::gillin> (sent)
<erlang::rama> (sent)c. Message Dated December 90
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 21:40:47 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)d. Message Dated December 90
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 23:01:21 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 <gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown
(Authoritative answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<mogul@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent)
mogul@acetes (sent)
<gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (bounced)
<chiu%erlang.dec@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent)e. Message Dated January 91 💌
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 91 17:05:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "bigfut",
during mail delivery to <BIGFUT::CALLON>.
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:(can't decypher error
code)
550 <Callon@BIGFUT.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknownF.7. Host Unknown or Sublist 🌸
Okay so "lucb-ml@OPUS" is not an Internet-style domain name 💀. The exploder ietf@CS.McGILL.CA has this address on its sublist, but CSA.McGILL.CA doesn't recognize the host. (This error should have gone to the sublist owner at CS.MCGILL.CA, bestie 🙈.)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 19:45:14 -0400
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@oliver.cs.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 "Luc Boulianne" <lucb-ml@opus>... Host unknownF.8. "HOST UNKNOWN" and the Host Really Is Known 🦋
Lowkey, a "host unknown" report usually doesn't get acted on unless it keeps coming back over several days 🫶. A lot of the time the hosts totally exist. They're just down for a couple of days, or there are network problems reaching them (or their name server, ngl 😭).
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 08:45:56 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-los-nettos@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 nrc.com.tcp... 550 Host unknown
550 IHM@NRC.COM... Host unknownWHATHOST CHECK ✨
westine 28% whathost nrc.com
Host: nrc.com ==> 129.216.200.51
westine 82% whathost 129.216.200.51
Host: aztec.NRC.COM ==> 129.216.200.51F.9. Host Unknown and MXed to Another Host. 🍓
DNS says AMES will forward mail for ADAPT, but the mailer at AMES says ADAPT is unknown. The move is to ask the postmaster at AMES to fix either the mailer or the DNS data 🔧.
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:39:35 PST
From: unet!Mailer-Daemon@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
bad system name: ADAPT
uux failed ( 68 )
550 george@ADAPT.NET.COM... Host unknown westine 86% dig adapt.net.com any
; <<>> DiG <<>> adapt.net.com any
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr aa rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
;; QUESTIONS:
;; adapt.net.com, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
adapt.net.com IN MX 10 ames.arc.nasa.gov ; 84029
adapt.net.com IN MX 20 tymix.tymnet.com ; 84029
;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
ames.arc.nasa.gov IN A 128.102.18.3 ; 158777
tymix.tymnet.com IN A 131.146.2.1 ; 86400F.10. User Unknown 💅
Most "User Unknown" errors that show up one at a time on the main list get deleted 🗑️. The ones on a sublist are different: they need a message to the postmaster or list maintainer, who get asked to delete the invalid user mailbox from their local list 💜.
F.10.1. Add User but Address Fails 🎀
This one is giving "wait, it didn't work?" 😭. The recipient was checking whether his mailbox was already on the list, and if it wasn't, he'd be re-added. He got re-added, but then a "user unknown" error came back on the confirming message that told him he'd been added.
a. Message Sent to User And Postmaster
To: postmaster@janus.enet.decl.com, postmaster@decwrl.dec.com
Cc: westine, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Subject: RE: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 10:15:40 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Stewart and Postmaster,
I readded your name to the IETF list but there seems to be problems
with connections to DECnet hosts right now. I have seen lots of
errors like this lately. Postmaster, please check into this. JANUS
is not the only host with an error, there are other hosts like this
in trouble.
For example.
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer
from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<erlang::chiu> (bounced)
<netrix::gillin> (sent)
<erlang::rama> (sent)
-------
Thank you, Ann
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: dist list
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted
> from this distribution list.
>
> My email address is > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list. Thanks, Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",
during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>.
Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
(can't decypher error code)
550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> (bounced)b. Message From Postmaster 📨
Return-path: vixie@wrl.dec.com
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 PST
To: westine@ISI.EDU
cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
From: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
Anne,
This was a transient. Please let me know if any other .enet.dec.com
nodes are still unreachable.
Paulc. Another Message to Postmaster 🔁
To: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 -0800.
<9011080024.AA28353@volition.pa.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 11:23:39 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Paul,
There are a few other error message that I received last week and
they seem to reoccur every couple of months. Here is an example.
What does this error mean?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<erlang::chiu> (bounced)
<netrix::gillin> (sent)
<erlang::rama> (sent)
<netrix::gillin> (sent)
<erlang::rama> (sent)
----------d. Message From Postmaster 🧚
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 17:10:02 PST
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
From: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
Anne,
This error:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
...means that the person on ERLANG:: has forwarded their mail to a
system that ERLANG does not know about. Decnet mail is not store-and-
forward, so decwrl (as smtp-to-decnet gateway) sees the end-system
error. Trying to be helpful, it sends it back to you.
My advice is to delete any addresses you have trouble with, if they are
in the .enet.dec.com subdomain.
paulF.10.2. No Such User 🙃
Here's the mail server's bounce for a user who doesn't exist on that node 💀.
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:05 CDT
From: PMDF Mail Server <Postmaster@crcvms.unl.edu>
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: westine@ISI.EDU
The message could not be delivered to:
Addressee: gale
Reason:
%MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user GALE at node CRCVMSF.11. No Transcript 🌈
Last one, and this one's a bit of a mystery 🕵️♀️. There's no transcript here, just the headers and a body that got deleted.
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:21:03 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
To: owner-ietf
To: owner-ietf
To: westine
--------------
<text deleted>F.12. Looping - Too Many Hops ✨🔁
okay bestie, this one is literally a mail loop 💀 the message keeps bouncing between the same two machines until it hits the hop limit 😭
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:59 PDT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@jessica.stanford.edu>
Subject: Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail
To:<@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
@jessica.stanford.edu:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 sendall: too many hops (17 max)
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09128; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:36 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17687; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:31 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0)id AA09124; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:28 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17674; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:22 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09120; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:19 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17658; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:13 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09116; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:11 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17645; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:05 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09112; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:03 PDT
Received: from VENERA.ISI.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17625;
Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:07:50 PDT
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA29996>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:49 -0800
Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
Received: from NRI.RESTON.VA.US by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA29992>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
Received: from nri by NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US id aa13139;7 Nov 90 18:26
To: Frank Kastenholz <kasten%europa.interlan.com@relay.cs.net>
Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: IETF mailing list
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 18:26:53 -0500
From: vcerf@NRI.Reston.VA.USF.13. No Postmaster 🙈
this one is a whole detective story, so grab a snack and let's go 🍓
a. Error Message 💌
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 18:40:58 EST
From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknownb. Checking Hostname and Address 🔍
westine 37% dig osi3.ncsl.nist.gov any
;; QUESTIONS:
;; osi3.ncsl.nist.gov, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.48.108 ; 86400
osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.51.1 ; 86400c. Checking For Users 👀
westine 49% mconnect OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
connecting to host OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV (0x6c300681), port 0x1900
connection open
220 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.0/NIST(rbj/dougm) ready at
Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:58:49 EST
expn ietf
250-Dale Walters <walters>
250-Richard Colella <colella@emu.ncsl.nist.gov>
250 Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>d. Checking For Administrators 🕵️♀️
westine 44% whois osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
National Bureau of Standards (ICST-OSI3)
Hostname: OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
Nicknames: OSI3.ICST.NBS.GOV,ICST-OSI3.ARPA
Address: 129.6.48.108
System: SUN-3/160 running UNIX
Coordinator:
Montgomery, Douglas C. (DCM5) dougm@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
(301) 975-3630
Record last updated on 17-May-89.e. Message Sent to Coordinator 📨
From westine@venera.isi.edu Thu Nov 8 13:58:40 1990
Posted-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
To: dougm@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Cc: westine@venera.isi.edu
Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Doug,
If the Postmaster is "unknown" please delete him from your exploder
list "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov". I have been receiving error messages
like this one for several days now. If I don't hear from you, I will
have to delete the above mailbox.
Ann
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
> 550 Postmaster... User unknownf. Message From Coordinator 🧠
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:34:02 EST
From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Sub-Organization: National Computer Systems Laboratory
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
Cc: staff@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
I think I have found out what is wrong. For some reason (we can
discuss this below) your exploder is sending IETF mail to our
exploder (ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov) through the machine
osi.ncsl.nist.gov. Now due to a recent subnet reconfiguration and
subsequent lack of update to our DNS servers, the DNS was returning
an incorrect address for osi3. Thus IETF mail would be sent to OSI,
which would try to forward it to OSI3 (using the wrong address).
OSI would think that OSI3 was down and dump the message, trying to
send a notice to Postmaster. OSI doesn't have an aliase for
Postmaster and thus the second error message that you saw.
These two problems have been fixed on OSI. Now the question is what
address you have in your distribution list that would cause this
mail to go through OSI in the first place. I guess you might have
something like "ietf%osi3@osi.ncsl.nist.gov." The other interesting
point about your list is that we receive IETF mail to our exploder
directly from venera.
Thus I suspect that there are two entries for OSI3 on your
distribution list. One that gets relayed through OSI and one that
points directly to OSI3. If this is the case please deleted
everything except the "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov." address.
If this is not the case or if there are other problems let me know.g. My Reply Back 💬
Here are all the addresses I have on the IETF list under NIST.GOV.
ietf@OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV,
mills@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
I'll deleted "mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov".
Here are two others at NIST
hunt@ENH.NIST.GOV,
sting@CAM.NIST.GOV
By the way, on the following message, it looks like the Mailer-Daemon
message went from OSI.ncsl.nist.gov to enh.nist.gov to venera.isi.edu.
--Ann
Return-Path: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Received-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id <AA19131>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
Posted-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
Received: from enh.nist.gov by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA03448>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:01 -0800
Received: from OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV by ENH.NIST.GOV;
Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:43 EDT
Received: by osi.ncsl.nist.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB14654;
Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Message-Id: <9011082039.AB14654@osi.ncsl.nist.gov>
X-Envelope-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----h. Another Problem .Forward 🎀
From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 421 osi3:Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster.. User unknown
Deleting the mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov entry should fix your problems.
Mills has a .forward to osi3, thus explaining why IETF mail was going
---> OSI ---> OSI3.
I checked OSI's sendmail.cf and it is relaying through enh. This,
though has nothing to do with the previous problem.
I flushed the queue of IETF mail on OSI waiting to go to OSI3. I
don't think you should see anymore bounced messages.
Sorry that our local problems were causing you grief .... let me know
if it happens again.F.14. File Over Allocation 💾
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with ames.arc.nasa.gov
Posted-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> QUIT
<<< 421 sage.acc.com SMTP Service not available:
insufficient disk space.
451 bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error
bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read errorF.15. File Deleted 🗑️
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 14:21:57 EDT
From: Daemon <daemon@ccj.bbn.com>
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: westine
Mail could not be delivered to the following address(es):
/usr/databases/bugs/vaxmail@ccj.bbn.com: No such file
or directoryF.16. Strange Postmaster 👻
a. Message Forwarded to IETF-Request 📬
Forwarded: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:09 PST
Forwarded: westine
Forwarded: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
Forwarded: galvin@TIS.COM
Return-Path: galvin@TIS.COM
Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id <AA03679>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
Posted-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA26292>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:01 -0800
Received: from TIS.COM by TIS.COM (4.1/SUN-5.64DB)
id AA04098; Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:13 EST
Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
From: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
------- Forwarded Message
Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org>
From: galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM>
To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28
Subject: Can't Find MailCenter!
<text deleted>b. Problem Reported to MITRE 💌
Okay, bestie, this one is Ann chasing the same "Can't Find MailCenter!" problem again 😭 She sends it to the MITRE postmaster and forwards the whole chain so everyone can see what happened 🎀
To: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
Cc: westine, galvin@TIS.COM
Subject: RE: Can't Find MailCenter!
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:01 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi,
We're getting this problem again. Please fix.
Thank you.
Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
From: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
------- Forwarded Message
Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org>
From: galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM>
To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28
Subject: Can't Find MailCenter!
GatorMail-Q Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/
Received: by qmgate; 15 Feb 91 21:28:25
Received: by mbunix.mitre.org (5.57/4.7)
id AA25128; Fri, 15 Feb 91 21:26:46 EST
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA17839>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:12 -0800
Posted-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA17833>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
Message-Id: <9102151645.AA26445@TIS.COM>
Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com>
To: Megan Davies <mdavies@nri.reston.va.us>
Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/ST. LOUIS
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Feb 91 17:44:13 EST.
<9102141744.aa15663@NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US>
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
From: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com>
<text deleted>F.17. Message Too Large 🧚
Here's a bounce that comes back with a "Message is too large" complaint from a mailer that's had enough 🙈
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 17:50:10 MDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554
olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Message is too large; 50000 bytes max 554
olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Service unavailableF.18. Vacation Messages 🌴
Two cases here, and both are about auto-replies that go a little wrong 💅
a. Case 1
This is a classic out-of-office reply from David Wasley, who is away from email and wants people to reach out to someone else if it's urgent 🦋
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 15:28:30 PDT
From: David Wasley <dlw@violet.berkeley.edu>
Subject: I am away from e-mail
This_Message_Brought_To_You_By: the vacation program
Apparently-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
I am away from e-mail until October 13. If your message requires
immediate attention, please contact one of the people below:
Network problems: Austin Shelton <austins@violet.Berkeley.EDU>
Network information: Bill Wells <netinfo@violet.Berkeley.EDU>
Network installation: Jim Allison <jca@violet.Berkeley.EDU> If
you're really desparate, leave me voice-mail at (415) 642-3478.
Thanks for your patience! David Wasley, U C Berkeleyb. Case 2
This one is a vacation program that fails to run, so it bounces back as an error 😭
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 18:17:12 EST
From: MAILER-DAEMON@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
To: <mmm-people-request@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: vacation: not found
554 "|vacation farber"... unknown mailer error 1F.19. LocaL Configuration Errors ⚙️
This bounce is about a local configuration problem on the sending side, which is a bit of a mess 🙃
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 00:36:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@nyu.edu
Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error
To: <owner-ietf>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 <russell@NYU.EDU>,<ittai@NYU.EDU>...
Local configuration errorF.20. Service Unavailable 💀
This one is a Clemson mailer that complains about its own host name before it even gets to the recipient 😭
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:00:39 EDT
From: Mailer-Daemon@omni.eng.clemson.edu
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To: <owner-ietf>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to eng.clemson.edu:
>>> HELO omni
<<< 553 omni host name configuration error
554 <gkrishn@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU>... Service unavailable
----- Unsent message follows -----F.21. "Bad File Number" 🍓
Toronto's post office sends this one back with a "Bad file number" error, and it's giving very confusing vibes 🥲
To: <owner-ietf>
From: The UTCS Post Office <postmaster@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Delivery problems with your mail
Your message has been received by the University of Toronto Computing
Services Postal System. A copy of it has been returned to you because
of difficulties encountered while attempting to deliver your mail.
The following errors occurred while attempting delivery:
<smtp madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca oattes@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca 1609>:
128.100.102.10: 550 <nsr@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca>... User unknown:
Bad file numberF.22. Cannot Append 🎀
This is a UUNET bounce where the mail spool just can't take the message, so it lands in dead.letter 🫶
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 90 14:51:57 PDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail: /var/spool/mail/cslater: cannot append
Mail saved in dead.letter
554 cslater... Service unavailableF.23. Error Creating Network Link 🔗
A DECnet bounce with a whole lot going on, including one recipient that bounced, one that's queued to retry, and one that was sent 🌈
"erlang::chang... Host unknown"
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 12:34:20 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from
name server)
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Node unreachable
(temporary failure)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<erlang::chiu> (bounced)
<netrix::gillin> (queued, will retry)
<erlang::rama> (sent)
----- Unsent message follows -----F.24. Not a Typewriter ⌨️
This DECnet bounce has an error that sounds very random, which is kind of the whole fun of it 😂
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 19:36:47 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
get_status: Not a typewriter
(mail11 operating system error)
451 <gray@netrix.enet.dec.com>... Operating system error
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown
(Authoritative answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<gray@netrix.enet.dec.com> (bounced)
<bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)
----- Unsent message follows -----F.25. "MTA Congestion" 🚦
A DFN gateway bounce that's just saying the MTA is congested, so this one is pretty short and sweet ✨
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 22:37:48 -0700
To: ietf-request
From: DFN Gateway <postmaster%zix.gmd.dbp.de@RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: DFN Mail Network -- failed mail
Mail Failure Diagnostics:
Message Recipients:
weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de: MTA congestionF.26. Local Forwarding Not Working 📬
Ann thinks this might be a forwarding problem inside MIT and doesn't want to delete a real person from the list by mistake 🥺 Chuck jumps in to save Semyon, so it all works out in the end 🫶
To: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Subject: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
Hi,
Would you mind checking into this error message before I delete this
person from our list. I think it may be an internal forwarding
problem at MIT. If not let me know if there is a new address or if I
should delete this one.
--Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 12:34:01 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
To: owner-dartnet@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> RCPT To:<dukach@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU>
<<< 550 /u/dukach/.forward:
line 0: tabasco.lcs.mit.edu... User unknown
550 dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Cc: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 -0800.
<9011012120.AA19211@venera.isi.edu>
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 17:16:44 -0500
From: jrd@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Ann,
Please don't delete Semyon. I'll get him to fix his
configuration.
Thanks,
ChuckF.27. No Such File or Directory 📁
Two recipients, one spool file that can't be created, and a mail that gets saved to dead.letter 🥀
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 17:57:08 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@quake.stanford.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2
To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
<<< RCPT To:<phil@quake.stanford.edu>
<<< RCPT To:<rick@quake.stanford.edu>
<<< DATA
mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/phil -: No such file or directory
mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/rick -: No such file or directory
Mail saved in dead.letter
554 <phil@quake.stanford.edu>,<rick@quake.stanford.edu>... unknown
mailer errorF.28. User Account Terminated 👋
Alison's account is gone, so Cornell sends back a User unknown bounce 😢
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:21:23 EDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@theory.TN.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to DEVVAX.TN.CORNELL.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu>
<<< 550 <alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu>... User unknown
550 alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu... User unknownF.29. Machine Terminated 🖥️
This one is a DCA host that's gone, so the bounce comes back as Host unknown 💀
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 19:33:26 EDT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@edn-vax.dca.mil>
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 edn-unix.dca.mil.tcp... 550 Host unknown
550 jsl@edn-unix.dca.mil... Host unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----F.30. Couldn't Make Final Delivery. 💅
Two cases where the final delivery just doesn't happen, one from NIST and one from DCA 🫶
a. Case 1
Date: 29 Aug 90 13:17:34 EST
From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@ecf.ncsl.nist.gov>
Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf>
----Reason for mail failure follows----
Sending mail to recipient(s) Nakassis :
Couldn't make final delivery.
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening USER2:[000000]NAKASSIS.DIR as outputb. Case 2
Date: 8 Oct 90 20:24:32 EDT
From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@imo-uvax.dca.mil>
Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
----Reason for mail failure follows----
Sending mail to recipient(s) morrisd :
Couldn't make final delivery.
%MRGATE-E-MRFROMVMS, Error transferring message to Message RouterF.31. Unknown ".ARPA" Hosts Without Updated Hostname ✨
okay bestie, this one is giving confusion 😭 WHATHOST and DIG both come back totally empty for DCA-EMS.ARPA, so there's no referral pointing to the new hostname 💀 but when WHOIS looked up DCA-EMS, it came back with the new hostname 👀 that's the clue!
Here's the bounce that started it all 📬
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
Posted-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:59:34 -0800
To: owner-internet-research-group@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Coviello@DCA-EMS.ARPA,Elliott@DCA-EMS.ARPA,
Hingorani@DCA-EMS.ARPA... Host unknown
westine 45% whathost dca-ems.arpa
Unknown Host: dca-ems.arpa, errno 0, h_errno 1 : Unknown hostwestine 44% whois dca-ems
Defense Communications Agency (DCA) (DCA-EMS)
Office Automation Division
Code H610
Washington, DC 20305-2000
Hostname: DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
Address: 26.1.0.76
System: BBN-C/70 running UNIX
Host Administrator:
Wilkinson, Avis D. (ADW) AWilkins@DDN-CONUS.DDN.MIL
(703) 848-4867
DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL users send E-Mail to AWilkins@DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
Record last updated on 10-Sep-90.F.32. Messages From an Internet Relay to Commercial Mail Systems
bestie, the commercial mail systems have some main-character drama 🎭 here are three bounces that came back when mail went from an Internet relay into them 💅
a. Message Too Large
first up, a message that was too big for CompuServe to take 📦
Date: 13 Feb 91 04:15:22 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
To: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Undeliverable message
Re: ? EMDITB - Mail Delivery Failure. Message too large.
>EPX [74360,3202]
Internet Monthly Report
Your message could not be delivered as addressed.
--- Returned message ---b. Invalid Parameters
next, an X.400 gateway said the transfer failed because of invalid parameters 🙃
Date: 13 Feb 91 05:34 UT
From: "X.400 Gateway" <MAILER-DAEMON@sprint.com>
Subject: MHS NonDelivery Report
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Report from domain /PRMD=/ADMD=telemail/C=us/:
FAILED delivery to:
1 Recipient ORName:
/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/
Translates to:
/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US
/@sprint.com
Reason: unable to transfer
Diagnostic: invalid parametersc. Looping
and last but not least, a message that got caught going in circles 🔁 the admin details at the bottom are only for the local administrator, not the end user 🙈
From: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for
Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
Message-Type: Delivery Report
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000
Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi...
This report relates to your message: Why WAN multi...
of Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000
Your message was not delivered to
Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu for the following reason:
Message looping detected (please contact local administrator)
*** The following information is directed towards the local
*** administrator and is not intended for the end user
*
* DR generated by mta pilot.cs.wisc.edu
* in /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/
* at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:35 +0000
*
* Converted to RFC 822 at pilot.cs.wisc.edu
* at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000
*
* Delivery Report Contents:
*
* Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=
/C=us/;<9012121704.AA08993@decpa.pa.dec]
* Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi...
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:47 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:21:48 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:55 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:46 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:57 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000 action Relayed
* Recipient-Info: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu,
* /G=Allan/S=Cargille/OU=cs/O=uw-madison/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=
* /C=us/;
* FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1);
* diagnostic Loop-Detected (3);
* last trace () Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000;
****** End of administration informationF.33. Incomplete DNS Data on Host
this one is a bit of a mystery 🕵️♀️ the mail bounced with "Valid name but no data," so the name is real but the DNS data for it is incomplete 🥲 dig does show nameservers for megasys.com, but in this output there's no address for megasys.com itself 👀
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 90 19:37:51 -0500
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@shark.cs.fau.edu>
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 megasys.com (TCP)... 550 Host unknown
550 <pax@MEGASYS.COM>... Host unknown (Valid name but no data
[address])
westine 27% dig megasys.com any
; <<>> DiG <<>> megasys.com any
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 2, Addit: 3
;; QUESTIONS:
;; megasys.com, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
megasys.com IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786
megasys.com IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786
;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
MEGASYS.COM IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786
MEGASYS.COM IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786
;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
UUNET.UU.NET IN A 192.48.96.2 ; 447968
UUNET.UU.NET IN A 137.39.1.2 ; 170920
seismo.CSS.GOV IN A 192.12.141.25 ; 172786F.34. Sublist Problem
bestie, Randy has been trying to get OFF the IETF list for MONTHS 😭 "fifth time now(?)" is literally the subject line energy. Here's the whole saga, start to finish 🎬
First, Randy asks to be removed, with two possible addresses, and says he's ready to use crontab for the mailings 🙏
From: fischer@math.ufl.edu
Posted-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
Received: from gimme.math.ufl.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA15131>; Mon, 17 Dec 90 09:28:24 -0800
Received: by gimme.math.ufl.edu (4.1/4.03)
id AA05948; Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
Subject: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
Fifth time now(?) I try this every couple of months now,
figuring you may be hoplesslly backed up.
Can you remove me from the ietf list? I may be there as
either:
fischer@math.ufl.edu
or
netadm@math.ufl.edu
I would appreciate a confirmation message: I'm ready to use
crontab for these mailings.
Many Thanks,
Randy FischerThen Ann replies that he isn't on the list individually, that there's an exploder at UFL.EDU, and she lists the other addresses she has from there 📋
To: fischer@math.ufl.edu
cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 -0500.
<9012171728.AA05948@gimme.math.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 10:15:36 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
Hi Randy,
I remember your request, and I also remember telling you that you are
not on our list (at least individually). There is an exploder
"netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU" maintained at UFL.EDU. You need to check with
the postmaster to see if you are on their list. If this is not the
case, here are the only other addresses I have from UFL.EDU
ceben@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
esj@UFL.EDU,
FCLA@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU,
POKE@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
There is another possibility, perhaps you have a pointer to a mailbox
somewhere else?
Regards,
AnnAnd finally Randy, as postmaster himself, explains that the exploder is local to math.ufl.edu and not ufl.edu, then asks for removal 🥳
From: Operator <root@math.ufl.edu>
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: re: done at last: please release me, let me go...
Many, many thanks for the reply: I did not, somehow, see your
previous reply -- perhaps you forwarded it to someone at UFL.EDU
instead of MATH.UFL.EDU? Or I missed it in the flow of mail I am
trying to abate.
No matter.
At any rate "netadm@math.ufl.edu" is indeed a local exploder, aliased
at the moment to myself and one of my assistants. It is local to the
"math.ufl.edu" subdomain, and not to "ufl.edu" as your records
indicate. I am the postmaster of the "math.ufl.edu", and you should
be able to verify "math.ufl.edu" has an MX record pointing to
"mathlab.math.ufl.edu". I am therefore mailing to you as root from
that machine.
Please remove "netadm@math.ufl.edu" from your list. I have quite
enjoyed the discussions, but the volume been overwhelming.
Thanks very much for your prompt reply,
Appreciatively,
-Randy Fischer <root@math.ufl.edu> <fischer@math.ufl.edu>F.35. File Protection Problem
okay so Raj suddenly fell off the IETF distribution list 😩 he hasn't gotten any IETF mail since 9-Jan-91, so he asks to be put back on it 🙏
From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642
09-Feb-1991 0904"
<jain@erlang.enet.dec.com>
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Request to add to IETF
I seem to have suddenly dropped off the IETF distribution list. I
have not received any IETF mail since 9-Jan-91. Could you please
ensure that I am still in the distribution list.
-Raj JainAnn says she'll re-add him, but if more error messages like this keep coming, his name comes off the list again 😤 she already flagged it to the postmaster at DEC, and she notes it isn't just Raj, there's CALLON and a few others too 🫶
To: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642,
508-486-7642 09-Feb-1991 0904" <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com>
cc: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU, ietf-request
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 09 Feb 91 06:07:15 -0800.
<9102091407.AA06473@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 11:17:41 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@rwa.isi.edu>
Hi Raj,
I will readd you to the IETF list. However, if I receive more error
messages like this, then I must take your name off the list again.
I've sent messages to the postmaster at DEC but the problem isn't
corrected. Your address isn't the only one, there's CALLON and a few
others.
Maybe you can check into this. Here's the header from one of the
many error messages I received.
Regards, --Ann
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 17:04:41 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to <ERLANG::JAIN>.
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation
(can't decypher error code)
550 <jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM>... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM> (bounced)F.36. User Unknown 💌
okay so this is the one where the mail just... stops reaching people 😭 Paul keeps getting dropped off the IETF list, and Ann has to deal with bounced mail from DEC mailboxes. Here's the whole saga, bestie 🫶
a. Request to be Readded to IETF List 🙏
Paul asks to be put back on the list, since it's happened before too 🥺
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 PST
From: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548
11-Feb-1991 1301"
<ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: add me to the ietf list (again)
Hi -
Could I be added to the ietf distribution list (again). I must have
been dropped from the list somehow. This happened to me before the
last ietf - I had to get my name reregistered then, too.
Thanks,
Paul Ciarfella ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.comb. Message to User Regarding Readd and Previous Problems 🚫
Ann replies with a whole bounced-mail paste, and honestly the error messages are a lot 💀 She says she can't reach Paul, so she's been forced to delete his mailbox 😬
To: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548 11-Feb-1991
1301" <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: add me to the ietf list (again)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 -0800.
<9102111803.AA11116@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 11:05:46 PST
From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
Hi Paul,
Every couple of months I have lots of error messags from several
individual mailboxes on ENET.DEC.COM. Here is a typical one. Since
I cannot reach you I am forced to delete your mailbox.
I have sent several messages to the postmaster at DEC but nothing has
been corrected. Perhaps you can look into this.
--Ann
Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id <AA11360>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu
(5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA08309>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:17 -0800
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA12106; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-Id: <9012120342.AA12106@decpa.pa.dec.com>
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: input timeout reading remote object
get_status: Connection timed out
(temporary failure)
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "levers",
during mail delivery to <LEVERS::CIARFELLA>.
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed
-SYSTEM-W-DIRALLOC, allocation failure on directory file
(can't decypher error code)
550 <ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<hayden@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (queued, will retry)
<ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)
<anil@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (sent)c. Response from User Regarding Problem 🔧
Paul writes back, says sorry about his tone, and asks to register a new address because the old one has had disk problems for over 8 months 😤➡️🥹
Return-Path: ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com
Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id <AA26215>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
Posted-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id <AA04585>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:22 -0800
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA14420; Wed, 13
Feb 91 13:51:00 -0800
Received: from levers.enet; by decwrl.enet; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
From: "I'll die for my country but I won't kill for Texaco
13-Feb-1991 1641"
<ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: re: add me to the ietf list (again)
Hi Ann,
Could we try another address for me? The old address has been
plagued by disk problems which might explain why the mail is not
getting delivered.
The new address to register is:
ciarfella@quiver.enet.dec.com
I will check into the problem on this end. Sorry about the tone of
my first message but this has been a never-ending problem for over 8
months.
Thank you,
Paul C5. Security Considerations 🔐
Okay so the vibe here is: security issues are not discussed in this memo 💀 Nothing more, nothing less. Just know that this doc isn't covering it.
6. Authors' Addresses 🦋
The two authors, Ann Westine and Jon Postel, both at USC - Information Sciences Institute 🌸
Ann Westine
USC - Information Sciences Institute
4676 Admiralty Way
Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
Phone: 213-822-1511
EMail: Westine@ISI.EDU
Jon Postel
USC - Information Sciences Institute
4676 Admiralty Way
Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
Phone: 213-822-1511
EMail: Postel@ISI.EDU📦 where this page comes from
- ietf: rfc1211 1991-03
- 💖 girlified by claude-haiku-5-5 on : a language model's rewrite of the original, under its terms