RFC 164
Minutes of Network Working Group meeting, 5/16 through 5/19/71
MINUTES OF NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING 🎀
Part 1 of 5 🌸
- RFC: 164, NIC 6778
- Series: Network Working Group
- Title: MINUTES OF NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING, 5/16 through 5/19/71
- Author: J. F. Heafner, Rand
- Category or status: the header doesn't list one, so I'm not guessing 🙈
- Obsoletes or updates: the header doesn't say it obsoletes or updates anything
- Dates: the title says 5/16 through 5/19/71, and the first session in here is labelled 5/10/71
Preface 🌸
Okay bestie, these notes are for people who were actually in the room at the NWG meetings 🧚 We didn't try to make them complete, so if you missed everything, it might be a little confusing 😭
The notes are in chronological order 📅 If you spot schedules or tasks that don't match up, that's because they got revised, and the dates that are more recent are the ones that count 💅
If you catch any gross errors in this report, please fix them through the accepted NIC procedures 🔥
Contents 📚
I. SUNDAY EVENING SESSION (5/10/71) ................. 4
Introduction of Attendees ........................ 4
Site Status Reports .............................. 6
UCLA-Sigma 7 ................................... 6
UCLA-CCN ....................................... 6
UCSB ........................................... 7
SRI-ARC/NIC .................................... 7
SRI-AI ......................................... 7
Rand ........................................... 8
SDC ............................................ 8
Illinois-CAC ................................... 9
AMES ........................................... 9
CCA ............................................ 10
Case Western ................................... 10
Carnegie ....................................... 10
Harvard ........................................ 11
IBM Research ................................... 11
RADC ........................................... 11
MIT-DM and MULTICS ............................. 11
Lincoln ........................................ 12
BBN-NCC ........................................ 12
BBN/TENEX ...................................... 13
Mitre .......................................... 13
NBS ............................................ 14
ETAC ........................................... 14
Air Force Sites ................................ 14
Other Reports ..................................... 15
Dept. Comm., Canada ............................. 15
U. of Chicago ................................... 15
United Kingdom .................................. 15
Merit-Univ. Michigan ............................ 15
EDUCOM .......................................... 16
Raytheon ........................................ 16
Miscellaneous Topics .............................. 16
Graphics ........................................ 16
NCP Protocols ................................... 16
IMLAC Users Group ............................... 17
Official Document Formats ....................... 17
II. MONDAY MORNING SESSION (5/17/71) ................. 18
Network Information Center ....................... 18
Plans for NIC .................................. 18
Concepts & Recommendations for Documentation ... 18
TELNET ........................................... 19
III. MONDAY AFTERNOON SESSION (5/17/71) ............... 20
File Transfer Protocol (RFC #114) ................ 20
File Protocol Status Report ...................... 20
Miscellaneous Topics ............................. 20
Sockets ........................................ 20
Initial Connection Protocol .................... 21
Testing and Validation ......................... 21
IV. MONDAY EVENING SESSION (5/17/71) ................. 22
Operating Systems and Networks ................... 22
V. TUESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/18/71) ................ 24
DRS Working Group Meeting with Open Attendance ... 24
Data Management on Computer Networks ............. 24
Open Discussion on Data Management ............... 25
VI. TUESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/18/71) ................ 27
Terminal IMP ..................................... 27
Comments by Dr. Roberts .......................... 27
VII. WEDNESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/19/71) .............. 30
VIII. WEDNESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/19/71) .............. 31
Miscellaneous Issues ............................. 32
NWG Organization ................................. 32I. SUNDAY EVENING SESSION (5/10/71) 💖
INTRODUCTION OF ATTENDEES ✨
Everyone introduced themselves and said who they were with 🫶 This list covers everyone who came to any of the sessions, not just this one.
SITE NAME
AMES-ILLIAC John McConnell
AMES-67 Wayne Hathaway
ARPA Bruce Dolan
Cordell Green
Larry Roberts
BBN-NCC Will Crowther
Frank Hart
Robert Kahn
Alex McKenzie
Carnegie William Broadley
H. Van Zoeren
Case Patrick Foulk
CCA Richard Winter
Dept. Comm., Canada Terry Shepard
EDUCOM Henry Chauncey
John LeGates
Harvard R. Metcalfe
R. Sundberg
IBM Research Douglas McKay
Illinois-CAC Jack Bouknight
G. R. Grossman
Jim Madden
Lincoln Labs Richard Kalin
Joel Winett
Merit Al Cocanower
Brian S. Read
Merit-Univ. Mich. W. Scott Gerstenberger
MIT-DM Abhay Bhushan
Robert Fleischer
Albert Vezza
MIT-MULTICS J. C. R. Licklider
Mike Padlipsky
Mitre P. Karp
David Wood
Gene Raichelson
NBS G. Lindamood
T. N. Pyke
RADC Tom Lawrence
Bob Walker
Rand E. F. Harslem
J. F. Heafner
Raytheon T. O'Sullivan
SDC Robert Long
Arie Shoshani
SRI-ARC-NIC Charles Irby
John Melvin
R. W. Watson
Stony Brook Ralph Akkoyunlu
Art Bernstein
M. Inam Ul Haq
Richard Schantz
Univ. of Chicago R. Ashenhurst
UCLA-CCN Robert Braden
Steve Wolfe
UCLA-NMC Vint Cerf
Steve Crocker
Ari Ollikainen
John Postel
Rollin Weeks
UCSB Steve Lynch
Jim White
U. K. Eric Foxley
Univ. of London Peter Kirstein
Univ. of Mo. Dan Garigan
Univ. of Penna. Don Bernard
Univ. of Waterloo Don CowanSITE STATUS REPORTS 🦋
Here are the highlights from what each site's people reported 👑
UCLA-Sigma 7 🌈
- NCP (document 1) and the user/server TELNET-like protocol have been operational for three months. 🔥
- NCP (RFC #107) will be implemented by June 1.
- TELNET will be implemented within one month of official specification.
- They have been gathering Network measurements, and they're going to keep doing it. 📊
- They'll use the UCSB file protocol along with all of the above. 🫶
UCLA-CCN 💜
- Local hardware has been connected to IMP. 🔌
- NCP (RFC #107) is 70% complete.
- NCP (RFC #107) and NETRJS will be in production on JULY 1. 🗓️
- A draft of NETCRT will be issued as an RFC soon. 📝
- They can offer APL and they're looking for interested users. 🧚
UCSB 🍓
- UCSB is a service center: 360/75 + 2314 storage. 💾
- NCP (doc. 1) has been operational since mid-October 1970.
- NCP (RFC #107) is operational and has been verified remotely. ✅
- Services currently offered:
- 1) UCSB on-line system
- 2) RJE/RJ0
- 3) file system
- 4) local interfaces to net via F0RTRAN, PL/1, etc.
- Short range plans:
- 1) DRS implementation and experimental service
- 2) Interested in APL
- 3) Distributed data base experiment with SRI
SRI-ARC/NIC 🦋
- They're now running NCP (doc. 1) in TENEX. 🖥️
- NCP (RFC #107) will be installed when BBN releases it.
- They're currently examining and tuning TENEX parameters and resolving interface difficulties. 🛠️
- Stage 0 plans include initial work with West Coast sites to gain experience using NIC, looking at response times and traffic loads. Initially this will look like TENEX to a user. Later, it'll appear as a virtual machine to remote users via a special NIC subsystem. 🎀
SRI-AI (reported by SRI-ARC personnel) 🧠
- The configuration includes PDP-10, TENEX, high-speed drum, robot. 🤖
- A Network connection is probably coming in July.
- The software includes various theorem-proving mechanisms. 🔥
- They're interested in working on the above over the Network. 💅
RAND 🌸
- The current configuration includes 360/65, 1800, IMP, video graphics system. 🎥
- NCP (RFC #107) is in daily production use on the 360/65, in conjunction with UCSB.
- The Network Services Program (NSP) is used for the following features:
- 1) dynamic access to local files
- 2) access to video consoles
- 3) access to NCP
- 4) UCSB RJE/RJ0 protocol
- 5) UCLA NETRJS protocol (not operational)
- 6) Logger and TELNET-like protocols.
- The PDP-10 is going to be connected into the Net (directly to IMP) in about two months. It'll eventually run TENEX and be a service center. 👑
- Short range software development includes TELNET and DRS.
- They'll keep providing production support for Climate Dynamics. 🌍
- The hardware is a 360/65 connected to a Honeywell 516, connected to IMP.
- NCP (doc. 1) has been verified with Rand. ✅
SDC 💖
- The 360/65 runs Adept timesharing, has 10 users, and can do protocols from a user process. 🧚
- NCP (RFC #107) will be coded by the end of the month.
- The Logger is fairly close to being checked out. 🙌
- They'll have TELNET similar to RFC #137 by June 1, and they'll offer it by 20 August. 🗓️
- SDC isn't meant to be a general service. It'll allow 1 to 4 users, and it can use Adept to run a job. 💅
- Okay so their experimentation plans include: 💅
- Voice I/O will use Net to talk with speech researchers (they'll only respond to specific programs) 🎙️
- Eventually graphic I/O 🎨
- Man/machine synergism 🤖
- Network data management 🗂️
- Network resources Notebook use and update 📓
ILLINOIS-CAC 🎀
- The IMP works, periodt ✨
- They'll use the
B5500on campus since theB6500isn't working 💀 - They'll link to a
PDP-11at Paoli for I4 software development, but it's not a general link for everyone 🙈
AMES 🧚
- Probably two separate nodes, ILLIAC and
360/67👀 - Plans are still in rumor stage, ngl 🤫
- They plan to get a TIP by the end of summer so they can access the I4 simulator 🖥️
- The duplex
360/67will be the regular host node 👑 - They're looking for an NCP implementer 🔍
- They'll use other services: the laser store and UCSB 🌈
- Their general research is interested in Network accounting and management 📊
- They'll go onto Net as soon as possible, to ILLINOIS 🦋
- They'll go on via TIP if it can support two nodes 💜
- They'll define a Net protocol for interactive graphics for I4 🎀
- They plan to get on Net before I4 comes up ⭐
CCA 💖
- CCA is responsible for the data computer project 👩💻
- It's a special purpose computer with a large storage device 💾
- The data computer (a
PDP-10and laser memory) should be viewed as one black box 📦 - It'll have two ports: a high-speed one to I4 and a low-speed one to IMP 🔌
- Data language and data will pass over the ports. That includes requests for files and portions of files, update, manipulation, and transformation of data. It will not include number crunching. Only access to the laser store goes through the black box data computer 🫶
- Hardware and communications are specified ✅
- Data computer services are just getting defined. They sent out 600 questionnaires and got 10 responses, so it's giving quiet 🥲 If you want to know about services, call Dick Winter on
(617) 491-3670. Dick wants to hear from any potential user 📞 - The laser store is one trillion bits of on-line storage, packed into 40 packs with 10 mylar strips each. The strips live in a carousel that can be rotated and mounted in 10 seconds. Access to any track is a maximum of 400 ms ⚡
- The laser arrives at CCA in early 1972 and moves in late '72. Services to the laser will be offered while it's located at CCA 🌸
- CCA will send out plans (as feasible) as RFCs 📜
CASE WESTERN 🍓
- The hardware has been built (a
PDP-10) and they're starting to test it 🛠️
CARNEGIE 🌈
- The hardware includes a
PDP-10with 240K 36-bit words, a TTY, etc. 🖨️ - They're currently using the DEC monitor 💻
- They'll modify Harvard's version of the monitor ✏️
HARVARD 🎓
- The hardware includes a
PDP-10with aPDP-1as the graphics devices handler 🎨 - The hardware is up and they're talking back and forth 🗣️
- The NCP (
RFC #107) for thePDP-10will be completed by the end of the month 🎉 - The
PDP-10has 48K 36-bit words. They expect more core after July, and then they'll make the NCP resident 🧠 - They're interested in file transfer, graphics, extensible languages, and experiments of distributed processes 🦄
IBM RESEARCH 💙
- IBM will buy an IMP and is negotiating for it right now 🤝
- They're designing a new concept of Networking 🧩
- They'll become an active node with either a
67or a91. The candidate91currently has 300-400K 🔥
RADC 🛰️
- TIP is scheduled for delivery in October 📦
- They'll provide local access to the SRI on-line system 🔗
- They're interested in the July graphics meeting sponsored by MIT (Al Vezza) 🎟️
MIT DM AND MULTICS 💜
- The
GE-645runs MULTICS, and thePDP-10is for dynamic modeling of graphics systems 📈 - NCP (
RFC #107) on thePDP-10by the end of the week 📅 - The logger on the
PDP-10is available by 15 June 🪵 - NCP (
RFC #107) is available on MULTICS by 11 June 🗓️ - The logger and TELNET are available on MULTICS by the first week of July ✨
- They've been running file transfer experiments with simplified ASCII transfers (not
RFC #114) 🧪 - Their interests include:
- File transfers 📁
- E & S processing to IMLAC and ARDS formats 🖥️
- DRS service 🛎️
LINCOLN 🦢
- Three connections are planned 🔗
- The
360/67has NCP, a logger, TELNET, and some file transfer protocol 🧃 - The
TX-2NCP is being developed. An interim NCP is working with file transfer experiments, error detection, and correction 🔧 - They're having hardware difficulties with the third connection 😩
- The
360/67has been running NCP (doc. 1) and a TELNET-like protocol since 1 March. UCLA and Rand have logged in. The TELNET-like protocol supports ASCII and EBCDIC 🙌 - NCP (
RFC #107), TELNET, and the logger will be operational on the67by 1 July 🎀
BBN-NCC 🐝
- NCC is responsible for maintaining the subnet and interfacing with Honeywell and AT&T. They're planning a mechanism for repairing the Net from their homes. The subnet has had 98% up time, which is giving reliable 💯
- An operational
316version of the IMP has been hooked into the Net since February. It's a production item at 1/2 the cost of the516, and the IMP programs are identical 💸 - The
316will be incorporated into the TIP. The multi-line controller has been fabricated and is being debugged. A common language for the TIP has been developed. TIP will be delivered to NASA Ames on 1 August. The TIP will handle 64 lines up to 19.2K bits. BBN is still shaking down which kinds of terminals will be compatible (they'll be bit serial at least). They're working with sites to determine terminal requirements 🖲️ - The resource notebook has been compiled and distributed. Twelve of 19 sites are included in it. SDC has since reported. Stanford, SRI/AI, MIT/DM, UTAH, Carnegie, and LL/67 haven't provided an entry yet 👀 BBN made another call for responses and asked that each site stay up-to-date. Someone commented that the Notebook needs a mechanism for: a) date of information b) complaints of information c) reporting that advertised procedures do not work
- TIP delivery for the rest of the year is going to these five sites: Ames, Mitre, Rome, ETAC in Washington, D.C., and NBS 🚚
- BBN has been studying Network performance to learn how to improve it 📉 An earlier Rand RFC reported a very low rate for a total Network experiment. Rand re-ran the experiment to examine just the subnet performance and reported a subnet rate in the 13-15K bit range for that test. MIT/DM has reported a 5KB rate, which will be examined further. BBN made a general offer to the Net community: if anyone takes these measurements and finds low data rates, phone NCC 📞
- The BBN-Honeywell relationship is a straightforward maintenance contract that covers P.M. and other problems which arise. BBN said a 24-hour delay in service would be unusually long. They'd like to be kept informed of views and opinions of the Honeywell service. BBN asks that each site keep a maintenance log and copy it to Marty Thrope at BBN 📋
BBN/TENEX (reported by BBN/NCC) 🌙
- BBN has a three-host IMP that includes NCC and two
PDP-10s. One10is for operational use, and the other is for experimentation 🖥️🖥️ - The software for the
PDP-10is TENEX 💫 - They're interested in getting involved in Network experimentation 🧪
MITRE 🌷
- Expect TIP delivery in September 📬
- They're now using a
PDP-10at BBN 🤓 - They'll work on a sample data management system using UCSB file storage 🗃️
NBS 🐾
- Expect TIP delivery in December 🎁
- They've selected a
PDP-11as the host, ready by December 🧸 - They'll build from the U. of Illinois operating system 🏗️
- They're contemplating attaching their
UNIVAC 1108to Network 🤔 - They'll provide experimental access to Network for these services:
- Measurement (performance) 📏
- Graphics 🎨
- Personal communication 💬
- Lab automation 🤖
- Support for NBS with appropriate services 🫶
- Local hardcopy from the
PDP-11🖨️
ETAC (Environmental Technical Application Center 🌤️
- ETAC, located in the Washington area, is a branch of Global Weather Service 🌦️
- Air Weather Service in Omaha, Nebraska, has seven
1108s providing weather data. One will be connected to Net to provide daily weather information to ETAC in Washington ☀️ - ETAC has a
1401and a7040in Washington to produce summaries for longer range use. The7040may go on the Network 📊
AIR FORCE SITES (reported by ARPA) ✈️
- To export technology to other regions, two Air Force sites (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and Sacramento, California) will temporarily join the ARPA Net so they can talk only to each other. This is a parallel to their AUTODIN connection. If it happens, they'll run for the first six months of '72 but probably won't continue after that 🤷♀️ The motivation is to examine Net ideas for developing a wholly autonomous network in three or four years 🌠
OTHER REPORTS 🦋
DEPT. COMM., CANADA 🍁
okay so the Canadian Government wants to optimize the use of all computers in Canada 💻✨
They now have a banking network. 🏦
They are interested in a small net for universities. 🎓
Their largest problem is the size of the country in relation to the sparseness of population. 🌲😭
U. OF CHICAGO 🏫
The University of Chicago has no current time schedule, but they have definite ideas about what they wish to accomplish and they are seeking funding. 💸 They are applying to NSF to support a local net on campus for lab automation. They have good people and good equipment, so the idea is to make it coherent. 🧠
Their interest in the ARPA Network is to make shared software available to their people and, to a limited extent, make local services available to other ARPA nodes. 🤝 Their proposed host is a PDP-11 to the mini computers and a second host (PDP-10) as a big software engine to make data available to the mini computers. The PDP-10 and PDP-11 will perhaps be linked together. They also expect to get a TIP to provide remote number crunching for their people. 🔢🔥
UNITED KINGDOM 🇬🇧
They have proposed three main machines and three terminal nodes. They have in mind the 906A, approximately the 360/75 in power. 💪
Their Post Office also has plans for a digital network in the distant future. 📬🔮
MERIT
MERIT-UNIV. MICH.
Most of the bugs are out of the hardware. 🪲✅
Most of the software is written. 💻
They will have PDP-11s by the end of the summer that are capable of transmission from one to another. ☀️
They will need and are now studying a TELNET-like protocol. 📚
They are concerned with orderly communication of the two processors. They will later become concerned about process-process communication. 🗂️
EDUCOM 🎓
EDUCOM involves 100 major universities, including most of those now in the ARPA Network. 🌍 For two years, they have been running a network without wires. 📡 They assume the ARPA Network can resolve the technical issues. They are looking into marketing, contracts, documenting, etc., for running the network. They have conducted a survey of 70 universities, polled about their interests in the ARPA network: 60 of 70 are interested, and 14 have money and are ready to become sites. 🙌💖
RAYTHEON
They will access the Net through the four Boston nodes. 🦞
Their interests include:
- experiments of file transfer conversions. 📁
- indexing behavioral data to allow one to search an index to see if the body of data of interest is within the Network. 🔍
MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS 🌸
Graphics 🎨
Al Vezza will host a July meeting of a small group interested in Network graphics. The price of admission is a sincere interest, working background, and a prepared talk. 🎟️✨
NCP Protocols 🧩
A new official document will replace document 1 and RFC #107. Implementation should not be held up because of the absence of this new document. 🙅♀️
The long range protocol committee chaired by Carnegie has been disbanded. 💀
IMLAC Users Group 🖥️
A quick survey was taken to determine which sites had or planned to get an IMLAC. The plan is to form an IMLAC users group. The following sites have or plan to get one: UCLA-S7, AMES-67, BBN, SRI-ARC, Stanford, MIT-DM, MIT-MULTICS, Mitre, Case, Raytheon, U. of Illinois. 🫶
Official Document Formats 📑
The notion of a functional document was suggested, one of which would be the document of official protocols with divisions of levels of protocols. 🧚
II. MONDAY MORNING SESSION (5/17/71) ☀️
NETWORK INFORMATION CENTER 🏢
Plans for NIC 🗓️
Two activities are planned for this summer: off-line mail and on-line access. The off-line service will continue after the on-line service has come into being. Plans for getting on the Net via PDP-10 (replaced XDS-940) are almost complete. Response times for display use are marginal. 😬
The activities will be developed in stages. Stage 0 (June 18): NIC will work with West Coast sites. This will involve providing NLS facilities to allow people to create messages with initial delivery as hardcopy, etc., with automatic generation of catalog entry and NIC #. This system has been used locally for about a month. 🛠️
Stage 1 (August 2): NIC will be open to the Net community as a whole. Remote users will come in directly to the on-line system and will have on-line access to the catalog. Users will be trained either at SRI or at their own sites before coming on. Four to eight concurrent terminals will be supported. 💻💅
Stage 2 will include file transfer protocol, on-line delivery of messages, and remote editing of SRI-located text. 🚀
Prior to stage 0, a course will be offered (on June 16, 17) for UCLA, Rand, SDC, UCSB, Ames, and RADC for the use of Stage 0. The second group of users (after stage 0) will use NIC to do their own site documentation. 📝
Concepts & Recommendations for Documentation 📚
The NIC # is a unique "name" for reference. It has no other meaning. Other numbering schema, such as RFC numbers, will eventually go away. However, the subgroups, such as RFCs, will remain. Appropriate set manipulators will be provided for assisting in storage and retrieval. 🗃️
The notion of functional documents was introduced (see RFC #115). This is to be a document whose purpose is reasonably stable over time. It can have subdocuments that change more frequently. A current list of functional documents includes the NIC Catalog, Directory of People, Resources Notebook, Protocols, and Site Facilities (one for each site). 🌷
The mechanism of documentation is the responsibility of NIC; the document contents are the responsibility of the author. There are two cases of document revision: replace part of the document and replace the entire document. In general, NIC would like the document to be re-issued in its entirety with a new NIC # rather than issuing errata. The functional documents are in looseleaf form, so new pages can be issued with the same number and a revision date. 📄
Documents are reproduced and mailed to site liaisons 24-48 hours after receipt. They are mailed to station agents on a weekly basis. When mailing is handled directly by a site, a copy of the document and a distribution list should also be sent to NIC. In the past, NIC has supplied abstracts of documents for the catalog. NIC requests that the authors include an abstract. ✉️
TELNET 🔌
The purpose of TELNET is to provide an immediate mechanism for communication between keyboard terminals and serving processes, with sufficient platform for later expansion and sophistication. ⌨️
Tom O'Sullivan described TELNET as delineated in RFC #137. (Later in these NWG meetings, Tom issued RFC #158, a new TELNET protocol.) After the description, many issues and questions were raised, viz., can TELNET expect "recovery" from NCP, 128 vs. 256 character set, DLE + 7-bit code vs. high-order bit on, should protocol extend service beyond what level consoles see, human factors, if information is available at second level should it be passed to TELNET, TWX-like service from NIC, mailbox protocol, etc. 🤯
In large part, these issues were raised but not resolved. It was agreed that an RFC would be forthcoming (RFC #158, published later at the meetings) followed by a functional document. 🫠
III. MONDAY AFTERNOON SESSION (5/17/71) 🌤️
FILE TRANSFER PROTOCOL (RFC #114) 📦
The file transfer protocol (RFC #114) was described. See also RFC #133 and RFC #141. 🧾
A simplified version of RFC #114 is being implemented by MIT/DM and MIT/MULTICS in order to: 1) allow Dynamic Modeling access to MULTICS file storage facility and 2) conduct a pilot project to gain understanding of such protocols. 🤓
It was noted that RFC #114 was not simple enough to implement for TIPs. 😵💫
A group was formed to meet Wednesday morning for more discussion and to exactly define the problems. The group would include representatives from UCLA, UCSB, BBN, MIT, Rand, SRI, Harvard. 👯♀️
FILE PROTOCOL STATUS REPORT 📊
UCSB described the status of RFC #122, A Simple Minded File System, as an operational program, not a proposal. The basic concepts of the file system were described. The design objective was to provide a simple service quickly. ⚡
Currently one 2314 drive and pack is available. At most four drives will be made available during the next year. It is also not clear how long space will remain available. The storage is currently free. 💾
Sites that will use the file system are Mitre, via BBN, UCLA, SRI, and Raytheon via one of the Boston hosts. 🌈
MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS 🍓
Sockets 🔐
Socket name structure was briefly discussed. Relevant RFCs that were mentioned were 1) RFC #129, whose purpose was to describe socket structures enumerated at the February NWG meetings, and 2) RFC #147, a recently proposed structure. 🧐
It was pointed out that there was a definite need to reduce the socket length from 32 to 16 bits (a TIP storage problem) regardless of its structure. 📉
A committee (Bob Metcalfe, Chairman, with Abhay Bhushan and Joel Winett) was appointed to produce a report in two weeks. The committee is to address the following three issues:
- is a socket structure needed
- are more than 16 bits needed
- what procedures are recommended for managing socket numbers.
Initial Connection Protocol 🤝
Race conditions and time out problems were elucidated. See RFC #123, 127, and 151. 🏃♀️💨
A committee (chaired by Jon Postel and including Steve Wolfe, Eric Harslem, and Arie Shoshani) was appointed to clean up the ICP specification. 🧹
Testing and Validation 🧪
Sites wishing a remote partner to exchange NCP, TELNET, and logger protocols can contact Rand. Rand was to collect status information before and during these exercises. Information was to be forwarded to Alex McKenzie to maintain and update status reports. (NOTE: A later steering committee decision reflects on the way in which this information is gathered, however. Rand is still available for testing and validation.) 💜
IV. MONDAY EVENING SESSION (5/17/71) 🌙
NOTE: Minutes of this session were kindly prepared by Bob Walker, RADC. 🫶
OPERATING SYSTEMS AND NETWORKS 🧠
okay so someone tried to study the ARPA Networks like a total academic 🎓 and the big idea was that the ARPA Network, with its hosts and protocols, is kind of an "operating system" 🖥️. So studying what makes a good operating system might help us figure out what makes a good ARPA Network. the logic is giving ✨
Professor Art J. Bernstein of Stony Brook gave a presentation on the features he thought a flexible operating system needs 💖. He covered the techniques for getting them, and where it made sense, he also pointed out the spots where you need different techniques for an internal operating system versus a network 🌐.
The three features he named were: (1) a flexible file structure, (2) a process hierarchy, and (3) an interprocess communication facility (IPC) 🎀. The terminology and techniques for all three were basically the ones developed for the MULTICS system 🦋.
The file structure capability was defined using a hierarchy of directories, tree names, active file table, hold count, known file table, and reference number 📁.
The process hierarchy was all about the father-son relationship. A father node spawns a son node, which creates an entry in the known file table and gets resources assigned, and it's all wrapped up in the SPAWN primitive 🧚. Making the primitives time independent was stressed as crucial for Network activity, but not necessarily for an internal operating system 😤. That led into the concept of subcontracting process, where executive type functions get treated just like user processes, so they're swappable 🔄. The "link process" was then described as the interface mechanism between two cooperating machines 🤝.
Interprocess communication was discussed in terms of channels, status return and software interrupts. The appropriate primitives got defined in detail, along with control type problems 💅.
Then the talk moved on to file handling, including a specification of the required primitives. From there it went to directory handling, specification of related primitives, and the mechanics of directory handling, especially the outstanding operation entry table in the executive 📚.
After a short recess, Bob Metcalfe gave a presentation from the ARPA Network point of view, responding to various points in Professor Bernstein's talk 🎤. He pointed out that the all pervasive tree structure in Bernstein's presentation seems to be most efficient for internal operating systems (i.e., file system, process hierarchy, etc.). But the ARPA Network isn't a tree structure. It's a directed graph, so we should be careful not to impose tree structure thinking on a directed graph type situation 🌳❌.
A bunch of questions and problem areas came out of the group and got written on the blackboard 📝:
- How much does the operating system need to know about the Network to get how much and vice versa?
- Degree of transparency to the user?
- "Optimal" resource allocation on the Network?
- Autonomy versus centralization of control.
- Resiliency.
The group talked about needing a committee on Theory, including how it should function, how often it should meet, requirements for attendance, etc. Dave Walden got mentioned as a possible organizer of a related effort 👀. Bob Metcalfe agreed to chair the committee 👑.
V. TUESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/18/71) ☀️
DRS WORKING GROUP MEETING WITH OPEN ATTENDANCE 🎀
The Data Reconfiguration Service meeting had a clear goal: resolve several lingering syntax and semantics issues, and also get comments and discuss the DRS with the entire Net community 💬.
A brief overview of the DRS (see RFC #138) was given ✨.
Remaining technical issues got resolved 🙌. An implementation specification (replacing RFC #138) will be issued soon 📄.
Initial implementers and users were polled for schedules and initial experiments. The results are below 💅:
MIT No dates currently provided
U. of Ill. One or two months will be required to reformat from remote
formats to GOULD printer; also conversion of ARDS to
COMPUTEC strings.
UCSB Implementation of service in two months; will provide
system forms for remote TTY-like devices to access UCSB
on-line system.
MITRE Will compare performance of DRS to current software of
UCSB file experiment.
Rand implement service by September; initial use to specify
UCSB RJE/RJ0 and UCLA NETRJS formats for local users.
UCLA will have a compiler of forms within one month unless
serious difficulties arise.DATA MANAGEMENT ON COMPUTER NETWORKS 🗂️
SDC presented RFC #144 (see also RFC #146) 💜. Arie Shoshani then walked through the considerations and approaches for achieving data sharing. The considerations were common language, sharing of existing data, evolutionary/revolutionary, future and use facility, further development, implementation, and speed 🧩.
The approaches given were:
- centralized
- a) new data only
- b) existing data
- standardized data
- integrated - common languages + interfaces
- a) interface on different nodes
- b) interface on service node
- c) Data Reconfiguration Service
- Unified
Dick Winter described the CCA approach 🌸. With several data computers, it becomes decentralized. All data computers have identical hardware and software. The objective is to dispose and restructure data throughout the Net to optimize its use, i.e., relocate it close to where it's used most heavily 🚚. For small files of wide interest, multiple copies can be maintained 📋.
Dr. Roberts commented that, with respect to the Network, there's no distance/cost relationship if data is retrieved more than one link away 🤷♀️. The reason for putting files in several places is reliability 🛡️. He sees the CCA approach as a Net-level language, which is why he lands on the unified approach. He also said the natural language approach is suitable as a research project, but not suitable for data management for real Net experiments 🧪.
CCA will present a proposal of data language at the next NWG meeting 📅.
OPEN DISCUSSION ON DATA MANAGEMENT 💭
This time slot was first set aside for describing a particular data management system Mitre is building. It turned into an open discussion of general principles and requirements for data management in the Network instead, which honestly is so relatable 😭. These were among the most recurrent comments:
- DRS, file protocol, and data management should be examined in a comprehensive way.
- Important considerations of data management are to allow users to define and restructure files logically, to move towards transparency of the Net, and to move toward natural language 🌈.
- A data management system should include functions for define, access, manipulate, analyze, store of files. For example, the data computer doesn't do formatting for output (like an RPG). It can take a number of conditions and do conditional retrieval, but not RPG 🙅♀️.
- A data management system could be developed in stages where a) the user explicitly moves data around the Net, b) the user specifies the location but the access is integrated automatically, c) location is maintained by the service 🪜.
- An area should be defined between file handling and application specific manipulation, and that area should be treated in a system wide way 🧭.
- The super file (too large for any one individual to economically own) never came up before, but it's reasonable for the Net 🌍. However, it's just one use, and there will still be need of many 10^9 files 💾.
- Privacy and security criteria should be applied at output rather than input, which is an argument for having processing capability at the location of the file 🔐.
- Dr. Roberts indicated that the things that matter are what things are on the Net, and what things are there to say. The structure depends on what there is to say, so one should concentrate on the language and not the structure 🗣️.
- The data management system can be viewed as having two parts: 1) the request, 2) the response and format. On the response side (operand side) there's the taxonomy of data types and a template of data, followed by the data. A template is a string in which data types or their descriptions are given with knowledge of iteration, recursion, and data types. On the request (operator) side, templates can be used to precisely specify the data to be retrieved, assuming the structure of the file is already specified 🧱.
- The disposition and request are over structures to the response 🔁.
A small group was set up to keep the data management discussion going 🫶.
VI. TUESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/18/71) 🌙
TERMINAL IMP 📟
The TIP can be configured either with 1) one host and two phone lines, or 2) three phone lines. Interfaces will provide 19.2KB to lowest TTY speeds for each line 🔌. It can handle various terminals and devices 🖨️.
Normally the user speaks through the TIP, but there's a primitive language for talking to the TIP too 🗨️. Commands will exist for doing particular protocols, such as logger 🪵. Other commands will be present for terminate on line feed, on character, now, on nth char., at end of message, i.e., the class of things that determine when a message is sent ✉️. There's another class for determining echoing 🔊. Device rates can be set up, and the serving site can also set up commands such as capturing a printer 🖨️.
The TIP is currently trying to comply with all second and third level protocols, such as TELNET and file transfer (when defined) 🤞.
Current plans are that the TIP cannot be reloaded through the Network. Not reloadable over the Net, bestie, so plan around that 🚫.
When new terminals get added, BBN will supply the TIP routines as part of the service 🎁.
The TIP is meant for RJE, terminal to process, and later tape to tape 📼. It's intended to be a switch rather than an operating system, under the assumption that the power will live in terminals and service centers ⚡.
The program limits the bandwidth. The sum of input and output is 100KB 📊.
Potential TIP delivery is about one every three weeks after August 📦. An upper figure for the TIP is $100K. The leasable terms are $40K/yr. for three years, plus a residual of $5K to own it, with a two-year minimum. This was designed as an alternate method of purchase 💸✨.
COMMENTS BY DR. ROBERTS ✨
Okay bestie, the big money move in the near term for getting on the Network is using other physical systems to reach brand-new resources 💅 It's going to be a number of years before people join just to get rid of their machines or boost CPU usage 🙈
Now the Network growth tea 🍵 The University of California has proposed bringing seven universities onto the Network, and we should have the data and program sharing protocols fixed by then 🔥 ETAC will be working on the past 10 years of weather in 10^11 store ⛈️ NCAR will be trading time (a 6600 and a 7600) with them and with ILLIAC, but use is restricted to weather work 🌦️ January or February are probable dates. This will be a third cross-country connection through UTAH perhaps (the second is via Omaha weather). SC will be added in March or April '72 for picture processing 🖼️ England will join about February '72. There are also other plans to tie in Mexico, France, Israel, Australia, Japan, Hawaii, Canada, etc., and all of that could possibly happen in '72 🌏
With regard to operating the Network, ARPA will not operate it indefinitely. One plan is to have AT&T operate it since they can legally sell the services, but this will not come about soon 🙅♀️ A commercial organization (not a common carrier) can only operate the Net under Government sponsorship. The current plan is to have BBN run the Net as a service for the Government, and this will be settled within the coming year 🎀
On the question of resources, setting up contracts with the service people at each site so that one agent ships money for various subcontracts is a basic legal framework. For ARPA purposes, it is sufficient to have only one connection with each site 💜
On software development, the NCP progress has been extremely poor and slow, ngl 😭 The second iteration should have been defined by now from experiences with the first. Towards the end of the year, a new protocol should be defined to last for a couple of years. Accounting and billing protocol should also be defined. The NCP protocol is getting to be a critical problem, so everyone should be complete and consistent with the current protocol by July 1. Without it, there will be serious problems bringing new people onto the Net. For example, the I4 and the laser store will be on the Net by March or April of '72 with serious people wanting to use it (80% of its use will be remote). By early '72, the Net must be a solid working entity 👑
The question of profit making time-sharing companies on the Net depends on whether or not AT&T takes over Net operations 🤔
The capital arrangement for non-ARPA users to be on the Net is as follows. A federal agency can donate $76K and get a TIP. Non-federal agencies can pay $36K per year for the TIP for three years, plus the $5K residual to own it. ARPA will not decide casually to allow non-federal agencies on 🧾
Regarding software support services, documentation will be upgraded so all sites need not keep complete NIC documentation (except service sites). In service centers, it makes sense to add one or two personnel to work on net service programs, work with users, etc., if needed. Research centers will now have to concern themselves with reliability, integrity, and problems of access 🧚
Regarding the charging mechanism for the data computer, the 10^12 store cost one million, plus the cost of the PDP-10. Thus 10^-4 cents/bit is reasonable for permanent storage. The rate for short term storage strips (like two weeks) will be about the same. If medium term storage is needed, a rate will be worked out. ARPA will pay for this storage as backup for the sites 💖
The on-lineness of NIC is very important for initial use, but we must have something better than TTY or CRT. The Net is cheaper than the mails. (Electrostatic hard-copy devices were briefly mentioned.) 🍓
Regarding new developments for AI symbolic processing, a plan hatched by Alan Kay is to have lots of processor, lots of core, and a big switch with the capability of serving users in the Net. It is to provide low cost core space (economics of processing are not known). This may become associated with some experimental hardware development facility, since the desire is to be able to build new architecture in a reasonable amount of time. It should be 10 to 100 times faster than the PDP-10, with earliest delivery in '73 🦋
The speech effort is on the order of three million per year. The concern now is to be able to tie together pieces at various sites for comparative evaluation. The cross-testing can have an impact on the researcher, but everybody must maintain compatible interfaces 🎧
The climatology program is for predicting future long-range climate of the World that comes about by perturbations. Various sites are involved at various levels, and it is hard to get these people to big computers, to the data bases, and to each other. The Network provides their total communication path with the I4. Direct and effective use of the Network can be made without much more of an investment; the Rand/UCSB work is a good example 🌈
VII. WEDNESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/19/71) 🌸
This session began with discussion of file transfer protocol, led by Abhay Bhusan. It was decided that the current file transfer protocol should be parsed into two pieces: a data transfer protocol front-end that could be used for file transfer and other protocols, and the file mechanism protocol. This problem was referred to the committee, which met for the remainder of the day to specify the data transfer and file protocols. An RFC will be forth-coming, describing these protocols 📜
The data management group met in parallel Wednesday. An RFC will be forthcoming on their results 💅
VIII. WEDNESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/19/71) 🌙
The following information was summarized by Steve Crocker.
Committees Publication Date Approval Date
ICP - Postel 5/27 6/3
File Transfer - Bhusan 6/7 ---
Data Mgmnt. - McKay (7/21) ---
Socket Struc. - Metcalfe 6/22 ---
Telnet - O'Sullivan 5/19 6/10
Theory - Metcalfe --- ---
DRS - Heafner 6/1 ---
Graphics - Vezza (7/18) ---The following inputs were provided to Steve Crocker on implementation dates of NCP (RFC #107) and TELNET (RFC #158).
Service Hosts NCP + TELNET
CCN 7/1
LL/67 6/15
SRI/NIC (6/18)
MIT/MULTICS 7/1
BBN/10X ?
UCSB/75 Up __Host__ NCP (RFC #107) TELNET (RFC #158)
UCLA/S7 6/1 6/15
Rand Up 6/15
Utah Up 6/15
U. of Ill. 7/1 7/1
Harvard ? ?
MIT/DM 5/25 6/25The following inputs were provided to Steve Crocker on schedules for current and pending work. Look at all these workstreams 🤩
Users Tasks
Mitre data management in progress
Raytheon data sharing (August)
NBS PDP-11 via low-speed phone line
(July)
BBN validation of resource notebook
(July 15)
UCLA data store, retrieval, reduction
(July 1)
DM/MULTICS/Harvard graphics, file transfer (July 1)
Ames/67 I4 simulator (July 15)
climate with UCSB (now)
climate with UCLA (July 1)
DRS (September)
SRI/NIC (August)
LL LISP (?)
LL TX2 speech data
TX2 data transfer (now)
TSP compiler (September)
U. of Ill. remote use (July 1)
link to Paoli (July 1)Miscellaneous Issues 🎀
Alex McKenzie will generate the NCP functional document in one month as an experiment.
Service documents to be sent to NIC include normal user documentation you would use at the site, plus special conventions (if any) for remote users. Read RFC #115 and RFC #118 📚
NWG Organization 🦋
There is some concern over the size of the NWG. Its functions and reorganization were discussed. Nothing definitive resulted immediately. It was suggested by Steve Crocker that another NWG meeting would be held in August.
Dr. Roberts and Steve Crocker created a steering committee to examine this and other problems. More will be said about the steering committee by Steve Crocker at a later date. And that's the whole tea, bestie 🌈💖
[ This RFC was put into machine readable form for entry ] [ into the online RFC archives by Nicholas Barnes 08/99 ]
📦 where this page comes from
- ietf: rfc164 1971-05
- 💖 girlified by claude-haiku-5-5 on : a language model's rewrite of the original, under its terms